Joo Casino - Os ganhos do jogador foram limitados.

Hello, everyone. I deposited 20 euros at joocasino today and got a 50 percent bonus plus 25 free spins. I was able to win 1000 euros while playing. Of course, I paid out this money after successful verification. The withdrawal was rejected within a few minutes and I only had 200 euros in my account. In the chat I was told I could only win 200 euros with the 2 deposit bonus and no more. However, I have read through all the bonus conditions and nowhere is it written what the maximum profit is. The only thing is that you can't bet more than 5 euros. In the chat, of course, I asked where it was written. However, I get no answer. I won this money fairly and of course I want it too. I hope you can help me!

Hallo zusammen. Ich habe heute im joocasino 20 Euro eingezahlt und einen 50prozent Bonus plus 25 freispiele bekommen. Beim spielen habe ich 1000 Euro gewinnen können. Ich habe dieses Geld natürlich nach erfolgreicher Verifizierung ausgezahlt. Innerhalb paar Minuten wurde die Auszahlung abgelehnt und ich hatte nur noch 200 Euro auf dem Konto. Im Chat sagte man mir ich könnte mit dem 2 einzahlungs Bonus nur 200 Euro gewinnen und nicht mehr. Jedoch habe ich mir alle Bonus Bedingungen durchgelesen und nirgendwo steht geschrieben was der maximal Gewinn ist. Lediglich nur das man nicht mehr als 5 euro Wett Einsatz haben darf. Im Chat stellte ich natürlich die Frage wo es denn geschrieben ist. Jedoch bekomme ich darauf keine Antwort. Ich habe dieses Geld fair gewonnen und möchte es natürlich auch haben. Ich hoffe ihr könnt mir weiter helfen!

Thank you for your response. I wasn't even able to pay out this money because it was cancelled. Of the 1000 euros I won, I only have 200 euros in my account. 800 euros were canceled because I allegedly violated the bonus conditions. But I have read them through carefully and nowhere is it written how much you can win with the deposit bonus. Hence my complaint. I don't see giving away 800 euros. In addition, I can't even pay out the 200 euros because the minimum payment amount is 500 euros. Thanks

Vielen Dank für ihre Antwort. Ich habe dieses Geld erst gar nicht auszahlen können weil es storniert wurde. Von meinen gewonnen 1000 Euro habe ich nur noch 200 Euro auf dem Konto. 800 Euro wurden storniert weil ich angeblich gegeben die Bonus Bedingungen verstößt habe. Ich habe mir diese aber exakt durch gelesen und nirgendwo steht geschrieben wie viel man mit dem Einzahlungsbonus Gewinnen kann. Deswegen meine Beschwerde. Ich sehe es nicht ein 800 Euro zu verschenken. Zudem ich nicht einmal die 200 Euro auszahlen kann , da der Minimum auszahlungsbetrah 500 Euro ist. Danke

Is there anything you can do? I only have 200 euros left in my account. I cannot pay this out because the minimum contribution is 500 euros. I want my 200 euros and that's fine. I ask for transfer to the account. Please help me.

Gibt es irgendwas was man machen kann? Ich habe nur noch 200 Euro auf dem Konto. Diese kann ich nicht auszahlen weil der Minimum Beitrag 500 Euro ist. Ich möchte meine 200 Euro haben und gut ist. Ich bitte um Überweisung auf das Konto. Helfen sie mir bitte.

Thank you for your reply, Ella092. Do I understand correctly that there is a minimum withdrawal limit of €500 for the payment method you are trying to use? Is there any other alternative withdrawal method with a lower limit? Have you tried contacting the casino regarding this issue?

Could you please forward all the relevant communication between you and the casino to kristina.s@casino.guru? I am particularly interested in the messages where the casino informed you why your winnings have been reduced. Alternatively, you can post it here. Thank you in advance.

In addition, it says on their site that you can pay out with bank transfer from 100 euros. But they don't seem to be interested in that either. Because the profile then says, from 500 euros. Now they have sent me an email (in the attachment) that the 200 euros will be sent manually, but my account would be deactivated for this. I hope you can help me. I'm fighting for that 1000 euros, or 200 euros. What ever. What is due to me. In fairness. Unfortunately I don't have any other screenshots.

Dazu kommt das auf deren Seite steht, das mit bank Transfer ab 100 Euro ausgezahlt werden kann. Das scheint denen aber auch nicht zu 8nteressieren. Denn im Profil steht dann , ab 500 Euro. Jetzt haben sie mir eine Email geschickt ( im Anhang) das die 200 Euro manuell versendet werden, dafür würde aber mein Account deaktiviert. Ich hoffe ihr könnt mir weiterhelfen. Ich kämpfe um diese 1000 Euro , oder 200 Euro. Was auch immer. Das was mir zusteht. Fairerweise. Andere Screenshots habe ich leider nicht.

Hello, I got the 200 euros. I don't know if Casino Guru is still investigating the case regarding the remaining 800 euros whether or not they were due to me. But I wanted to give an update that I got the 200. Warm greetings

Hallo, ich habe die 200 Euro bekommen. Ich weiß nicht in wie fern Casino Guru den Fall noch untersucht bezüglich den restlichen 800 Euro ob diese mir zu standen oder nicht . Aber ich wollt ein Update geben das ich die 200 bekommen habe. Liebe Grüße

Could you please clarify which bonus you played with? If possible, please, post here a link to offer you redeemed.

Unfortunately I do not have access to my account. It was disabled for whatever reason. It was the 2 welcome bonus.

Ich habe leider keinen Zugriff zu meinem Konto. Dieser wurde aus welchem Grund auch immer deaktiviert. Es war der 2 Willkommensbonus.

Thank you very much Ella092 for your cooperation. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Peter (peter.m@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction soon.

Hi Ella092,

I have looked at your case and understand the situation. Let me contact the casino and I will do my best to help. I would like to invite Joo Casino to the conversation to participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Dear Ella092,

We have reviewed your case:

Part of the funds were actually confiscated due to the maximum winning. In your case, the winnings were accumulated during the game with Second Deposit Free Spins from the Welcome Package, which have a max win in the amount of 200 EUR.

More detailed information is available on the link.

The link itself can be found in Bonus Terms and Conditions - > Paragraph 1.1.

Best Regards,

Joo Casino

Hello, yes, but first of all this is not under "bonus conditions" because the player reads them. And if there is nothing there, then one also assumes that there is no maximum profit. You have to look for the link you have listed here. A player doesn't do that kind of work. Second, this link says FREE SPINS win and not percentage rate bonus. Warm greetings

Hallo, ja aber erstens steht das alles nicht unter "Bonusbedingungen" denn diese liest der Spieler. Und wenn da nichts steht, dann geht man auch davon aus, das es keinen maximal Gewinn gibt. Den Link den sie hier aufgeführt haben, den muss man extra suchen. So eine Arbeit macht sich ein Spieler nicht. Zweitens steht auf diesem Link der Gewinn aus FREISPIELE und nicht vom Bonus des Prozent Satzes. Liebe Grüße

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies.

Dear Joo Casino,

As Ella092 pointed out, there are no free spins with the second deposit bonus. Secondly, even if there were free spins, who would ever look for bonus conditions in a "Currency Equivalents" section? We believe that bonus conditions have to be transparent and this is not the case. Therefore, the player should get paid in full.

I actually got 25 free spins, but I only used those 25 free spins. According to joocasino, winnings from FREE SPINS must not exceed €200. I may have won just over 6 euros during the free spins! I can't say for sure because my account was blocked as I said! For whatever reason ! Not only that you can't read anything about a maximum win under bonus conditions...in addition, if there is anything in it (which you have to look for separately....) the maximum win from FREE SPINS is 200 EURO. And not from my full 50% bonus. That means I didn't violate anything here. I was allowed to win 200 euros with free spins (as you say). I did not reach these 200 euros. I also think that I am entitled to my money, sorry.

Your site is not at all transparent about this and I find that unfair to your players.

Ich habe tatsächlich 25 freispiele bekommen, ich habe aber auch nur diese 25 freispiele benutzt. Laut joocasino darf der Gewinn Von GRATISDREHUNGEN maximal 200 Euro betragen. Ich habe bei den freispielen vielleicht knapp über 6 Euro gewonnen! Sicher kann ich es nicht sagen da mein Konto wie gesagt gesperrt wurde! Aus welchem Grund auch immer ! Nicht nur das man unter Bonusbedingungen nichts über einen maximal Gewinn herauslesen kann...dazu kommt das wenn überhaupt was drin steht ( was man extra suchen muss....) Der maximal Gewinn von GRATISDREHUNGEN 200 EURO beträgt . Und nicht von meinem kompletten 50% Bonus. Das heißt ich habe hier gegen nichts verstoßen. Ich durfte mit freispiele ( wie ihr sagt) 200 Euro gewinnen. Diese 200 Euro habe ich nicht erreicht . Ich finde auch das mir mein Geld zusteht tut mir leid.

Eure Seite ist bei sowas überhaupt nicht transparent und das finde ich unfair gegenüber euren Spielern.

Dear Ella092 and Peter,

German players receive free spins after getting deposit bonuses. Please check the link.

We would never confiscate because of the maximum win for playing with a percentage deposit bonus.

The player received and wagered two packs of deposit free spins in the game named Book of the Fallen. You would not be able to play these free spins without knowing the game, that is, you went to the Promo Tab to check the game that has free spins.

As for the link, we should mention the fact that the link is highlighted in bright color and placed at the top of the Bonus T&C page to focus the user's attention. If the user is actually viewing the Bonus Policy, then he/she will notice this link. We also believe that everything is quite transparent and makes the page more concise.

Best Regards,

Joo Casino

I only used one package from these free spins. Namely 25 free spins for book of the fallen. And I certainly didn't win 200 euros there. Your statement "We would never confiscate for max win for playing with a deposit percentage bonus" is also not true. Because the free spins didn't win me 200 euros. So you wouldn't have to confiscate any money from me. Because in this link what you specify, the profit from FREE SPINS is clearly stated. Free spins are free spins to me. I didn't win 200 euros in the free spins. I won 1000 euros with my deposit of 20 euros plus the bonus of 50%. I find it cheeky that you simply deduct 800 from me. Because as I said, a maximum win from FREE SPINS means for me that I should have won the 25 rounds of the free spins of book of the fall, a maximum of 200 euros. But you, just like that, took 800 euros from my percent bonus. And that's not fair.

Ich habe von diesen freispielen nur ein Paket benutzt. Und zwar 25 freispiele für book of the fallen. Und da habe ich mit Sicherheit keine 200 Euro gewonnen. Ihre Aussage "Wir würden niemals wegen des maximalen Gewinns für das Spielen mit einem prozentualen Einzahlungsbonus konfiszieren" stimmt auch nicht. Denn durch die freispiele habe ich keine 200 Euro gewonnen. Also müsstet ihr mir garkein Geld konfiszieren. Denn in diesem Link was ihr vorgebt, steht klar und deutlich der Gewinn aus GRATISDREHUNGEN. Gratisdrehungen sind für mich freispiele. Ich habe in den freispielen keine 200 Euro gewonnen. Ich habe mit meiner Einzahlung von 20 Euro , plus den Bonus von 50% 1000 Euro gewonnen. Das ihr mir einfach 800 abzieht, finde ich eine Frechheit. Denn wie gesagt, einen maximal Gewinn aus GRATISDREHUNGEN heißt für mich, ich hätte in den freispielen von book of the fallen die 25 runden, maximal 200 Euro gewinnen dürfen. Ihr aber, habt mir einfach so , 800 Euro von meinem Prozent Bonus weg genommen. Und das ist nicht fair.

that is a clear statement for me. Namely: you may not win more than 200 euros in the free spins! In the FREE SPINS of the WELCOME OFFER! there is no talk of a 50% bonus or anything else. And I didn't win €200 in the FREE SPINS (25 FREE SPINS BOOK OF THE FALLEN). Anything that went over I won through my deposit and the 50% bonus. So I demand my 800 euros too.

das ist für mich eine klare Aussage. Und zwar: sie dürfen in den freispielen nicht mehr als 200 Euro gewinnen! In den GRATISDREHUNGEN vom WILLKOMMENSANGEBOT! hier ist keine Rede vom 50% Bonus oder sonst was. Und ich habe in den GRATISDREHUNGEN (25 FREISPIELE BOOK OF THE FALLEN) keine 200 Euro gewonnen. Alles was drüber gegangen ist, habe ich durch meine Einzahlung und den 50% Bonus gewonnen. Also verlange ich auch meine 800 Euro .

Dear Ella092,

We can analyze everything by timing. You’ve started to play with the spins for the second deposit started on August 08, 2022 15:59 UTC, right after your  second deposit bonus got status "Lost", since  players in most cases start the game with this kind of bonuses. At that moment, you had no more than 8 EUR left on your balance locked as "Second Deposit Freespins Result", as one might expect,  it was a win from playing with free spins. With this balance that you started playing Midas Golden Touch and, having successfully wagered the result of the free spins, you managed to win more than the above mentioned sum of money. 

Best Regards,

Joo Casino

You didn't activate the free spins until the next day. And I only used 25 free spins the others were still on my account which I haven't been able to access until now for whatever reason!!!

Ihr habt mir die freispiele erst am nächsten Tag aktiviert. Und ich habe nur 25 freispiele benutzt die anderen waren noch auf mein Konto auf dem ich bis jetzt aus welchem Grund auch immer keinen Zugriff habe!!!

Hi Ella092,

The Free Spins bonuses are activated by a player.

You had two packages of free spins, each of them had 25 spins. One of the packages actually expired.

In regard to your Joo account, as far as I can see, it has been closed due to a manual withdrawal process, your account has been successfully reopened, since your funds should have already been credited to your bank balance.

If you see that something is wrong with a player's account, you can always contact our chat to clarify the circumstances.

Best Regards,

Joo Casino

Nevertheless, I think I didn't violate any of the bonus conditions you set. I ask Casino Guru to review this case properly. As it says in the link from joocasino, it says Winnings from FREE SPINS 200 euros. That means for me that I can win a maximum of 200 euros in the FREE SPINS (free spins). And I didn't win that amount anyway. I won everything else (the prize of 1000 euros) thanks to my deposit and the 50% bonus that was still active at the time of winning!

Nichts desto trotz, finde ich , habe ich gegen keines von euch gesetzten Bonusbedingungen verstoßen. Ich bitte Casino Guru diesen Fall ordentlich zu überprüfen. Wie es in dem Link von joocasino steht, steht dort explizit geschrieben Gewinn aus GRATISDREHUNGEN 200 Euro. Das heißt für mich , ich darf in den GRATISDREHUNGEN (freispiele) maximal 200 Euro gewonnen. Und diese Summe habe ich so oder so nicht gewonnen. Alles andere ( der Gewinn von 1000 Euro) habe ich dank meiner Einzahlung auch gewonnen und dem Bonus von 50% der in der Zeit des Gewinns, noch aktiv war!

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies.

Dear Joo Casino team,

I would like to ask you for the player's game history and please mark the free spins bonus if it's not stated there (peter.m@casino.guru).

Hi Ella092 and Peter,

We took into account your wishes and sent the history of bets to the player's mail with a little explanation. Our team hopes that this step will make things clearer in the best way.

Best Regards,

Joo Casino

I will forward the email to peter.m@casino.guru

Ich werde die Email weiterleiten an peter.m@casino.guru

When I started playing the free spins I still had 7.66 in my account. And that from my bonus. That means I hadn't lost the bonus. And when I had the last spin on cygnus 2, which won me 1000 euros with a bet of 2 euros, I had already fully implemented the bonuses. This means that during this period of winning I played without a bonus. The money is mine!!

Als ich angefangen habe die freispiele zu spielen, hatte ich noch 7,66 auf mein Konto. Und das von meinem Bonus. Das heißt ich hatte den Bonus nicht verloren. Und als ich den letzten spin bei cygnus 2 hatte womit ich 1000 Euro gewonnen habe , mit einem Einsatz von 2 Euro, da hatte ich die bonuses schon vollkommen umgesetzt. Das heißt in dieser Zeit vom Gewinn habe ich ohne Bonus gespielt. Das Geld steht mir zu!!

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies. Since the complaint got a bit confusing and complicated, I will try to sum it up.

Ella092 took the second deposit bonus with free spins. The bonus was lost and the remaining balance in the account was about €7,66. Then the first batch of free spins was activated. Ella092 played the free spins and when she spent them, the balance was €281.26. My question is: Was this already real money or was there any wagering that needed to be met? If it was real money, why wasn’t the max win cap of €200 applied? If the winnings from free spins needed to be wagered to meet the wagering requirement, when was it met? There are other parts of the statements I still don’t understand like:

"You had two packages of free spins, each of them had 25 spins. One of the packages actually expired.

In regard to your Joo account, as far as I can see, it has been closed due to a manual withdrawal process, your account has been successfully reopened, since your funds should have already been credited to your bank balance."

When exactly did this happen and what is the relevancy regarding the winnings? 

I successfully implemented the free spins plus deposit bonus on 08/08 at 16:32. That means when I won the 1000 euros, it was real money! I've done everything successfully so far. That means it was my real money!

Ich habe den Bonus der freispiele plus den der Einzahlung am 08.08 um 16:32 erfolgreich umgesetzt. Das heißt als ich die 1000 Euro gewonnen habe, war es schon Echtgeld! Ich hatte bis dato schon alles erfolgreich umgesetzt. Das heißt das war mein echtes Geld!

Hi Ella092 and Peter, 

I want to briefly mention how a play with free spins bonus looks like: the player receives free spins, enters a certain game, and, in our case, makes a spin 25 times, then, if he/she wins, the player receives the winnings in the form of a bonus, which must be wagered. Our player won more than 7 euros during a play with FS, on which the wager was imposed. That is, the player did not play with his own money, it was money received during wagering free spins, which is subject to the maximum possible withdrawal amount, since the winnings were not received from the player’s "bare" deposit, but during the game with the money gained from playing with our bonus spins.  

On the most recent deposit, the player received the Second Deposit Bonus, and, as you can see in the betting history, the player could not win anything, and the Second Deposit Freespins result (the name of the bonus speaks for itself) wagering had begun.  

As for the account, since the minimum withdrawal amount for a bank transfer is 500 euros, the player would not be able to receive money to the bank account as she wanted, so the player's account was temporarily closed in order to make a manual withdrawal.  

Best Regards, 

Joo Casino 

Our player won more than 7 euros during a game with FS on which the bet was imposed. That is, the player did not play with his own money, it was money received while wagering free spins, which is subject to the maximum possible withdrawal amount, since the winnings are not derived from the player's "bare" deposit, but during the game with the money you won playing our Bonus Spins.

I would like to answer that: when I started playing with free spins, I still had almost 7 euros in my account from the deposit bonus. That means I kept playing with my deposit plus the 50% bonus! So something is definitely wrong here. I still had my bonus open, which means I continued to play with my deposited money and the bonus. And my god you hide any links on your site, first of all. And 2. You write maximum win from FREE SPINS. For me that still means that I can only win 200 euros in the free spins and no more. I demand my won money.

Unser Spieler hat während eines Spiels mit FS, auf das die Wette auferlegt wurde, mehr als 7 Euro gewonnen. Das heißt, der Spieler hat nicht mit seinem eigenen Geld gespielt, es war Geld, das er während des Einsatzes von Freispielen erhalten hat, was dem maximal möglichen Auszahlungsbetrag unterliegt, da die Gewinne nicht von der „nackten" Einzahlung des Spielers, sondern während des Spiels erhalten wurden mit dem Geld, das Sie beim Spielen mit unseren Bonus-Spins gewonnen haben.

Darauf möchte ich gerne antworten : ich habe als ich angefangen habe mit freespins zu spielen knapp noch 7 Euro auf mein Konto gehabt vom Einzahlungsbonus. Das heißt ich habe auch weiter mit meiner Einzahlung plus dem 50% Bonus gespielt! Also hier stimmt definitiv irgendwas nicht. Ich habe doch meinen Bonus noch offen gehabt das heißt ich habe auch weiter mit meinem eingezahlten Geld und dem Bonus gespielt. Und mein Gott ihr versteckt auf eurer Seite irgendwelche links, erstens. Und 2. Ihr schreibt maximal Gewinn von GRATISDREHUNGEN. Das heißt für mich immer noch, ich darf in den freispielen nur 200 Euro gewinnen und mehr nicht. Ich verlange mein gewonnenes Geld.

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

Dear Joo Casino team,

According to the game history, the balance after the deposit bonus was spent was obviously €7.66. This doesn't look like it was made from free spins. Anyway, back to my question: What were the winnings from free spins, how many times did they need to be wagered, and when and how did the wagering end? Did it end by fulfilling the wagering requirement or by making a withdrawal?

Hi Ella092 and Peter, 

Let me try to explain the principle of the player’s game and the results of wagering in a different way:

Further time indication will be displayed in UTC.

The initial game with free spins is not displayed in the player's history. Only the result of the game with those free spins is displayed in the form of a bonus in Game history. That is, in your case, you finally played with free spins for the second deposit August 08, 2022 15:57. The winnings that you received were credited to your active balance August 08, 2022 15:59 in a form of a bonus, Second Deposit Freespins Result. You made a deposit, the exact time of which is August 08, 2022 15:57:46, in the amount of 20 euros + the bonus part of the Second Deposit Bonus in the form of 10 euros was added. This happened on August 08, 2022 15:57. That is, you had 37.16 euros on your balance and a few minutes later you began a play. You may check your Game history and promo tab in your account.

Throughout the game, you couldn't wager your Second deposit bonus, during the game bets were made in the amount of 44.90 euros, the bonus became Lost, the money that was locked by this definite bonus and your real deposit were lost as well. Then you continued the game with the amount on the balance, locked by a bonus named Second Deposit Freespins result, now we are talking about the very seven euros. That is, your net winnings from deposit free spins, which was on your balance all this time, but could only be played as part of a bonus with a wager (Second Deposit Freespins result).

We would like to remind you that even if you have continued playing after wagering your free spins winnings, our casino has a maximum winnings limit which has been paid out to you accordingly.

Our team hopes that in this way we were able to clarify the situation.

Best Regards, 

Joo Casino 

I had €7.66 when I started the free spins. That's fact. I don't know why you're talking about it. I hope Casino Guru will investigate this case very properly.

Ich hatte 7,66€ als ich die freispiele angefangen habe. Das ist Fakt. Ich weißt nicht warum ihr euch daraus redet. Ich hoffe Casino Guru wird diesen Fall sehr ordnungsgemäß untersuchen.

Hello, is there anything new? Warm greetings

Hallo, gibt es mittlerweile etwas neues? Liebe Grüße

Hello, I'm trying again here. Are there any news? I don't understand why casinos do this. Specify a maximum profit that is apparently only achieved through free spins. The fact is, if I had opened the game where I had the free spins and I had won there, for example, 250 euros, then the casino would only have been allowed to credit me with 200 euros, so it is understood as a player!! You could have deducted the 50 euros from me, so that I would have achieved a MAXIMUM WINNING OF FREE SPINS, namely 200 euros! But you can't just deduct 800 euros from me, can you? I won this money fairly, I deposited 20 euros for it!! And I started the free spins because I still had part of my money in my account. What's the matter with you? I find it a disgrace!! Casino Guru please help me get through this properly. I don't think it's fair to the players who register there. Because it's all hidden, it's not legal and it's all written so stupidly.

Hallo ich Versuche es nun nochmal hier. Gibt es irgendwelche Neuigkeiten? Ich verstehe nicht warum Casinos sowas machen. Einen maximal Gewinn angeben der anscheinend nur durch freispiele erzielt wird. Fakt ist , hätte ich das Spiel geöffnet wo ich die freispiele hatte, und ich hätte dort zum Beispiel 250 Euro gewonnen, dann hätte das Casino mir nur 200 Euro gutschreiben dürfen, so wird es als Spieler verstanden!! Die 50 Euro hättet ihr mir abziehen können, so das ich einen MAXIMAL GEWINN VON GRATISDREHUNGEN erreicht hätte und zwar 200 Euro! Aber ihr könnt mir doch nicht einfach 800 Euro abziehen ? Ich habe dieses Geld fair gewonnen, ich habe dafür 20 Euro eingezahlt!! Und ich habe die freespins gestartet da hatte ich noch Teil meines Geld auf mein Konto. Was ist denn bei euch los? Ich finde es eine Frechheit!! Casino Guru, bitte helft mir diese Sache ordnungsgemäß zu überstehen. Ich finde es den Spielern die sich dort anmelden nicht fair gegenüber. Denn es ist alles versteckt , es ist nicht rechtens und es ist so blöd alles geschrieben .

Hi Ella092,

I'm afraid we will have to accept the fact that the winnings were made from the free spins. However, I still don't know at what point the winnings get converted into real money.

Dear Joo Casino team,

Let me ask you this one last time: how does the bonus money from free spins get converted into real money? What is the trigger? Is it finishing the wagering requirement? (I never found out what the wagering requirement for the winnings from free spins is) Is it making a withdrawal? I'm trying to find out how the player knows if they play with real money or bonus money. If Ella092 finished the wagering of the free spins and the max cashout was €200, why wasn't this amount automatically transferred to real money? So please focus on the questions here and try to answer them all.

Hello Peter,  

The bonus money is converted into real money (or the money, which is withdrawable), let me speak with your words, once you meet wagering requirements, 50x in the player’s case. If the bonus funds are not wagered, those funds have status "locked by bonus" and can not be withdrawn till the bonus gets Wager Done status. Any player definitely sees it in Promo section and Bonuses History. Once a player would like to cashout the funds gained after a successful wagering of a bonus, we can subtract a part of the funds, if the bonus has defined max winnings limit we are ordered to pay. 

We can guess that this reasoning can answer your final question too.

Alright, thank you, now we are getting somewhere. If I understand it correctly when the wagering is finished, the winnings from free spins should get capped in this case at €200 and the €200 turned into real money. Now, looking at the game history, the 50x wagering of the free spins was finished at about 16:32 and the player's balance was €281,26. My question is, why wasn't the cap applied and why was Ella092 able to continue playing for almost another hour with bonus money?

That's exactly what I'm asking myself. At the time, I had €281.26. And with that money the casino let me keep playing and then I won the 1000 euros. At the time of payout I had fully fulfilled all bonuses. This is a scam to me sorry. You let the players keep playing to keep the money "what must not be won". Just to say to me after the canceled payout: "You can only win 200 euros" why didn't you fix it immediately? Because of course you withheld the 800 euros, that's why. I find it unfair, because at the time I had real Money played (which I won through my deposit)! And I think it's cheeky that you just minimize my winnings like that. I'm sorry! I demand at least one compensation. Keep half and pay me at least half of my winnings!

Genau das Frage ich mich auch. Ich hatte ja zu dem Zeitpunkt 281,26€. Und mit diesem Geld hat das Casino mich weiterspielen lassen, und dann habe ich die 1000 Euro gewonnen. Zum Zeitpunkt der Auszahlung hatte ich alle bonuse vollständig erfüllt. Das ist für mich ein betrug sorry. Ihr lässt die Spieler weiter spielen, um das Geld "was nicht gewonnen werden darf" einzubehalten. Nur um mir nach der abgebrochenen Auszahlung zu sagen: sie dürfen nur 200 Euro gewinnen" warum habt ihr es nicht sofort ausgebessert? Weil ihr euch natürlich die 800 Euro einbehalten habt , deswegen. Ich finde es unfair , denn zu dem Zeitpunkt habe ich mit echtes Geld gespielten ( was ich durch meiner Einzahlung) gewonnen habe! Und das ihr mein Gewinn einfach so minimiert , finde ich frech. Tut mir leid! Ich verlange wenigstens eine wiedergut machung. Behaltet dir Hälfte und zahlt mir wenigstens die Hälfte von meinem Gewinn aus!

Hello Peter, 

I'm glad the picture gets clearer.

We do not restrict players from subsequent play in games after wagering the bonus if they wish so as we simply do not have the ability to prohibit the process of playing. The decision to withdraw the maximum winnings is made only when the player puts funds for withdrawal.

Dear Joo Casino team,

Thank you for your reply. Regarding your post: "We do not restrict players from subsequent play in games after wagering the bonus if they wish so as we simply do not have the ability to prohibit the process of playing. The decision to withdraw the maximum winnings is made only when the player puts funds for withdrawal."

It is nice that you don't restrict players from subsequent play but what would be the point for the players to keep playing if they knew that they couldn't win anything? Secondly, does it say somewhere in the casino's T&Cs that a player has to make a withdrawal to transfer bonus money into real money? I couldn't find this information in the bonus terms.

Let's take a look at the whole situation from the player's perspective. Ella092 played with free spins and made some winnings. The information about the max win cap is hidden on a page called "Currencies". It's a terrible place to put significant terms of a bonus but considering the circumstances (terms are in the wrong place but are there + the player would probably still take the bonus), it would be acceptable if the max win cap was applied properly. However, there is no information stating that players must make a withdrawal for the bonus to turn into real money, so the bonus lacks transparency and confuses players.

That's exactly what I think too... It's unfortunately hidden and that's unfair. Sorry.

Genau das denke ich auch ... Es ist leider versteckt und das ist unfair. Tut mir leid.

In order to expedite this incident (because I'm running out of patience...) I propose the following to the casino: you pay me half of my original winnings, and the complaint is thus withdrawn. I think I won that money fairly. You have hidden your bonus conditions in such a way that players cannot find them. And to be honest, I don't think the maximum profit is fair. Because even if someone keeps playing like Peter says, it doesn't make sense for you either way, because you would still keep everything. You're losing a lot of players like that. That's a pity, because your site is actually quite well structured. Warm greetings

Um die Beschleunigung dieses Vorfalls vorzunehmen ( weil mir langsam die Geduld fliegen geht...) Mache ich dem Casino folgenden Vorschlag: ihr zahlt mir die Hälfte meines ursprünglichen Gewinns aus, und die Beschwerde wird somit zurück gerufen. Ich finde ich habe dieses Geld fair gewonnen. Ihr habt eure Bonusbedingungen so versteckt das die Spieler diese nicht finden. Und den maximal Gewinn finde ich ehrlich gesagt nicht fair. Denn auch wenn jemand weiterspielt, so wie Peter es sagt, es hat bei euch so oder so keinen Sinn, denn trotzdem würdet ihr alles einbehalten. Ihr verliert so , jede Menge Spieler . Das ist schade , denn eure Seite ist eigentlich Recht gut aufgebaut. Liebe Grüße

Good morning Ella and Peter, 

To the first question I give the following straight answer: players can win and make a withdrawal after wagering free spins, it doesn’t not mean that the player cannot win anything. Such bonuses are not uncommon. The second question is not entirely clear for me, but perhaps my answer will help you: "bonus" money ceases to be such if the player wagers a bonus.

For the first time, we have a complaint about the maximum win from these free spins. As already mentioned, in order to avoid loading the page with information, the link was highlighted in yellow and placed on a separate page for convenience, because such a page with a table is easier to view if, for example, you save it in your bookmarks. We have a support that works 24/7 and can always tell you if there is a maximum win from the bonus or not. For example, many players are not even aware that after playing with no deposit free spins there is a maximum withdrawal amount, but this does not negate the fact that we do not confiscate part of the funds due to the player’s ignorance or because she/he has not read the rules. This is the case in a huge number of casinos, since such bonuses always have a maximum withdrawal amount. By the way, this situation may answer your first question. 

We refuse to pay any additional part of the money. Sorry about this.

Dear Joo Casino team,

My point is that the bonus money wasn't automatically transferred to the real money after the wagering is over. How does a player know if they are still wagering the bonus or already playing with real money? Is the bonus money (winnings from free spins) displayed separately in the account?

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Hello everyone,

Actually, once the bonus wagering is over, the money becomes "real".

Every user checks if the bonus has been wagered in the Bonuses history and by looking at "Withdrawable" funds amount in the Profile.

The bonus money is summed up with real money. If the bonus is active, the funds will be seen as "Locked by bonus".

Dear Joo Casino team,

You stated: "Actually, once the bonus wagering is over, the money becomes "real"." This sentence isn't correct because normally players can continue playing with real money and can keep their winnings. In this case, the wagering was finished, but the player's funds kept on wagering without a chance to make real money winnings. Considering the circumstances, we are convinced that the player should get paid in full. If Ella092 doesn't get paid, I'm afraid, the complaint will become unresolved.

That's exactly how I see it too Peter, thank you for that. I hope it gets clarified.

Genau so sehe ich es auch Peter, ich danke dir dafür. Ich hoffe es wird geklärt.

Dear Peter,

The player gained the winnings by playing with a bonus that has a defined maximum withdrawal limit and received all winnings. That's how it works in almost all casinos.

Please understand the logic with an example:

if you received no deposit free spins, which also have a withdrawal limit, then it turns out that if you win 1500 euros, then the casino must withdraw the entire amount, despite the maximum withdrawal of 50 euros from no deposit free spins specified in the conditions?

Stop, your example doesn't make sense. Because in your example you are talking about no-deposit games, then it is normal that there is a maximum profit.

I, however, deposited at their casino. Namely 20 euros. And you let me keep playing with MY money. Until I won 1000 euros. I won with my money. I don't care if there was a bonus open or not. Because so far I have never heard in any casino that you can only win 200 euros with a welcome bonus. It shouldn't be like that at all. You took my deposit for you (the casino) 800 euros!!! withheld . And I find that an insolence. Because I was able to win 1000 euros thanks to my deposit of 20 euros! So I stand by my opinion. I'm finally asking for the remaining 800 euros, this complaint has been open for 2 months and I'm slowly getting tired of it. If they don't transfer my money soon, I will also hire a lawyer for this. Have a nice day!

Stop, ihr Beispiel hat keinen Sinn. Denn in ihrem Beispiel sprechen sie von einzahlungsfreien spielen, dann ist es normal das es einen maximal Gewinn gibt.

Ich aber, habe in ihrem Casino eingezahlt . Und zwar 20 Euro. Und ihr habt mich mit MEINEM Geld weiterspielen lassen. Bis ich 1000 Euro gewonnen habe. Ich habe mit meinem Geld gewonnen. Es ist mir egal ob dort ein Bonus offen war oder nicht. Denn bisher habe ich in keinem Casino gehört das man mit einem Willkommensbonus nur 200 Euro gewinnen darf. Das darf absolut nicht sein sowas. Ihr habt meine Einzahlung dafür genommen, das ihr ( das Casino ) 800 Euro!!! Einbehaltet . Und das finde ich eine Frechheit. Denn ich habe 1000 Euro gewinnen können dank meiner Einzahlung von 20 Euro! Also bleibe ich bei meiner Meinung. Ich verlange die restlichen 800 Euro endlich, diese Beschwerde ist seit 2 Monaten auf und so langsam habe ich keine Lust mehr. Sollten sie mein Geld nicht bald überweisen werde ich einen Anwalt hierfür auch einschalten. Einen schönen Tag noch!

Dear Joo Casino team,

I understand the logic but the application should be much more transparent and work without confusing players. Once the wagering of a bonus is finished, the bonus money should transfer to real money, and from that moment, the player should be able to do whatever they want with their funds including continue playing. Unfortunately, this is not the case in Joo Casino. The complaint will become unresolved.

Dear Ella092,

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the casino will change its decision. I will mark the complaint "unresolved" in our system. I understand this isn't a satisfactory solution to your issue. However, the decrease in rating caused by unresolved complaints may change the casino's approach. If the casino decides to reconsider, we will reopen the complaint and you will be notified by email. In the meantime, I recommend you contact the Curacao Gaming Authority (certria@gaminglicences.com) and submit a complaint to them. Even though I'm not sure if the gaming authority will help you, it is worth a try. I wish I could be of more help.

Best regards,

Peter

We’ve reopened this complaint as per the casino's request. We would like to give this case one more chance to get resolved and help both involved parties to reach a satisfactory conclusion.

The casino wrote me an email. I should send them my bank details and Iban so that they can transfer the money to me. I'm curious.

Das Casino hat mir eine Email geschrieben. Ich soll denen meine Bankdaten und Iban senden, damit sie mir das Geld überweisen. Bin ich Mal gespannt.

Hi Ella092,

Along with your payout, you will receive the money that was confiscated.

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies.

Dear Ella092,

That is good news, please let me know when you receive your winnings.

Hi,

The funds were transferred yesterday. We are awaiting for a player's response.

Hello everyone, I just received the money. I would like to say thank you to the casino and of course to you Peter. It wouldn't have come this far without you... Thank you very much! The complaint can hereby be resolved. Warm greetings

Hallo zusammen, ich habe soeben das Geld bekommen. Ich bedanke mich hiermit an das Casino , und natürlich auch an dich Peter. Ohne dich wäre es nicht so weit gekommen... Vielen Dank! Die Beschwerde kann hiermit gelöst werden. Liebe Grüße

Hi all,

Thak you for your replies.

Dear Ella092,

I'm glad to hear that you received your winnings. I will now mark the complaint as 'resolved' in our system. Thank you for using the Casino Guru complaint resolution center. Don’t hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future.

Best regards,

Peter